Lizzie Schlafer, owner of Lizzie Schlafer Photography, joins us to share her struggle to find her place in the professional world, and how she ended up turning her love for photography into a full-time career.
Lizzie is a unique type of business owner — instead of setting a divide between her business & personal self, she treats her business as an extension of herself. So, it’s no surprise that her specialty is capturing the true stories of each of her clients, and all the emotions that come with them.
In this episode, we talk about feeling lost after college, thinking you’re not legitimate enough to turn your hobby into a business, and the fear we all have about doing it wrong.
Lizzie shares her experience with postpartum depression, and we all celebrate finally accepting the fact that we’re not meant to be stay-at-home moms.
Thank you so much to Lizzie for coming on the show and sharing your vulnerabilities with us.
Head over to Lizzie’s website to see her work and view her services. She’s currently booking 2022 and 2023 sessions.
Visit the Lizzie Schlafer Photography Website
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Hello and welcome to Seriously Creative. I’m Jess.
And I’m Gwen.
And today we have an absolutely lovely guest, Lizzie of Lizzie Schlafer Photography.
So, Lizzie is a Cleveland based photographer who’s been capturing weddings, families, and personal stories for almost six years. We got to have a really open and honest conversation with her, which is just our absolute favorite thing.
She’s so good at being vulnerable and really letting people know all the stuff.
So, I absolutely love this conversation so much because of her honesty and sharing about not knowing what she wanted to do, which I think a lot of us can relate to. Trying a lot of different things to kind of find her passion.
And then how she found that in photography. And then again, like how she made it into a full-time job, which is the absolute dream.
We do talk about postpartum depression in this episode, so we wanted to add a trigger warning before you start listening. So enjoy Lizzie Schlafer.
… the worst thing is that I have no butt anymore because pregnancy takes your butt away.
Well, yeah. Cuz you hold your body differently and then like you’re clenching and then your butt goes flat.
And I’m like, I used to have like a nice butt. Like my husband liked it.
Now I just have pancake, butt.
All right. Welcome Lizzie. We’re so excited that you’re here and we’re so excited for you to tell us everything.
So we met actually a few months ago, or maybe earlier this year when we were doing…
No, it was last year.
It was last year. Oh my God. It was last year.
So you came to us because you hired us for a brand therapy session, which is one of our favorite things to do.
But we fell in love on that call and we ended up staying on even longer to chit chat about life and being business owners and creatives and moms and being exhausted and all the things. And then we ended up doing your rebrand and website, which we absolutely loved. And our favorite part of that was staying on after all of our calls and talking more about all these things.
And that was a big reason why we decided to start this podcast, because when we have conversations like that makes us feel less alone.
And more like, Oh my God, we’re all going through like the exact same thing.
Just separately. So thank you for always being so open with us.
I’m like a chronic oversharer, so that’s good.
It’s a good thing
Okay. We’re all in the same boat. As I just told you about my, how my butt went flat and I became a butt. That’s the way to start every conversation.
I appreciate that.
It really loosens everyone up.
And one of the things that we love about you so much is that you have your shit together.
You have a super successful business. You have a super cute son and a super cute husband. But you always share like the inside stuff on Instagram as well. So you’ll share like the behind the scenes or what it really looks like or that you’re changing your business because it’s like stressful for you.
And I think that’s super inspiring because it helps us on the outside, not just look at everybody else and be like, God, how are they like doing it all? Because even though we know it’s all different on the inside.
We all do the comparison game.
I do it all the time. I don’t really know if there’s anyone who doesn’t do that.
Even the most confident, most like reassuring people. I think still see anything that’s curated and feel that insecurity creep in, in whatever capacity that is. I mean, feel less than I, I still feel it often. I am a person who habitually has to delete my social media. Like how often in the past couple months, I deleted like every other week.
So your business account or your personal?
My business. I very rarely post on personal. If I didn’t have a business account, I would probably be off the grid.
You’d also, I feel like be living in a tent somewhere,
Potentially. That I’d be in a tent or in a van or like a rustic cabin.
I love it out in the woods. Grandpa Chic .
I really love doing that.
Do you guys watch Stranger Things?
Yes, of course.
Okay, so you know how Hopper lives in a cabin?
Okay. That’s how I would live.
Not as like recluse where he’s just angry all the time. But I would just really enjoy that.
I can see that.
I can see it.
I also really like people though. Like, I like being reclused, but I also really love suburban life. Like I really love waving at it. I never thought, I love it. I love waving at my neighbors. I love knowing everyone’s name on the street,
I have all these feral cat tendencies where I wanna be alone, but I also have these golden retriever tendencies where I really just want people to pet me.
Like I have both of those parts of my life. So I feel like cabin in the woods for when I need a break house and suburbia for when I wanna talk to everyone.
You need two houses, that’s what you need.
Like a weekend house.
I just, yeah, sounds very casual, very greedy at the same time. . I need both.
I think it’s fair.
I think most of us do. It’s how you recharge.
Okay. So can we talk about like your beginnings a little bit?
So were you raised in Ohio? Cleveland?
And you love it here?
I do actually. And I think the people who live here are salt of the earth people. Yeah. I really do like living here.
I’ve never been away.
I’ve always been here.
Where’d you go to school? Undergrad?
Oh my. Okay, so you’ve like stayed around here.
Did you go to Kent too?
We were all three went to Kent.
At the same time.
Jess and I lived down the street from each other one year on the same street. We never met, never met.
I was not a per, I don’t know how you were, I should not have done traditional higher education as a route to find my career. Granted, it got me to where I am right now, but as an 18 year old, I was so lost and I had to pick a route and I thought, well, I’m not very good at one thing in particular, and I don’t have one vested interest.
I’m gonna study American sign language. Stop it. Is that what your major was? That was my initial undergrad for my first two years. Okay. Which is wildly difficult by the way. I just wasn’t thriving in it and I couldn’t figure out what I was good at and I thought, I’m gonna try marketing and advertis. Also not easy.
Everybody does that. It’s also not easy . But in retrospect, I was really just grasping at straws, like, where is, where am I supposed to be? Someone tell me. Because I felt like I was surrounded by all these people who’ve followed their four year plan in undergrad and they got to where they were going to be.
One is the person that I’m married to, but I was constantly trying to figure out my place. What were like your hobbies at that time? Like what did you enjoy doing? So, I love musical theater. I love vocal ensemble and I love marching band. Okay. Musical. Yes. And then I worked at Blossom Backstage. I was a production runner.
And Blossom is a music venue for anyone who know now. Yes. So working backstage was just like the most electrifying feeling during a concert. It’s incredible. I can, Yeah, I can imagine. It would be really exciting. And I loved the world of like operations and product. And I knew I liked Hands on Work and not sitting at a desk.
Yeah. So I wanted to be a tour manager or a production manager. And so I would intern for record labels and I tried writing like a Tumblr blog at one point. We all had a Tumblr blog at one point on it. Did you have a live journal? Did anyone have a live journal? I know. What’s that? Home had my space.
Tumblr was my shit. I had a lot of feelings. I hope it’s not out there. I need to go check out this to make sure it’s deleted. I had a lot of friends who had a lot of feelings on Tumblr. We’ll link I Tumblr in the show notes. . No, I will actively go find it and delete it because right now I’m sweating thinking that its out.
I actually feel the same way. So I got my master’s degree at the University of Akron and then I got my first professional job at Cleveland State working in aquatics. And I did that for one year. My job was in a windowless basement office on a pool deck. Oh geez. Yikes. That sounds rough. It was so depressing.
I remember thinking. , Oh, this is not it. What did I do? And that’s kind of when a camera fell into my hand. So, Okay. So take us through that. How did that happen? Yeah. How did the camera fall into your hand? I remember I had always, I loved taking pictures. I had a tiny little can rebel and I just always loved it.
But I never felt like I had the talent or the know-how. I didn’t have anyone directing me on how to take pictures. I thought that was everyone else’s realm. Anyone I knew who took pictures, I thought that was their talent and not mine to have like all the seats had been filled, I guess. Okay. And I remember talking to Dave and saying, What if I asked Marissa who was our wedding photographer?
What if I just, Dave, your husband, Dave is my husband? What if I asked her if I could just come and watch what she does? Cuz I think I know what her job’s like, but like all other jobs that I’ve thought I like, I don’t really know what they are until I do them. Right. I love that you. decide like, I’m gonna go ask this person how to do that.
Like that never crossed my mind. That always crosses my mind. I always wanna know how people do it. So you said Marissa was your wedding? Marissa Decker was our wedding. I think we were her second wedding ever. Wow. Yeah. We also were child brides. We got married super young. But I asked him, Do you think, that’s a weird question if I emailed her and I remember I drafted up this super long email and read it to him.
He has always been my biggest supporter for any dream or ambition or thought I have. He’s, he’s the chaotic energy I need that. He just says, Go for it. So I asked her if I could come and just hold her gear for a day and watch what she does. And she responded within minutes and just said like, Yeah, come.
And I showed up and I remember she gave me a camera and I was like, I don’t know how to use this. And she just let me take pictures. And I remember just knowing this is it. I just, it. I was busy all day and there was all of this emotion and I was photographing people in love, and I knew it was special and it felt right for the first time ever.
That thing that I was looking for was there, and I knew I could make it happen. I just, I didn’t know how. So I started, I think I took a Jenna Kucher class. Oh, this was seven years ago. Yeah. And I am all about online learning, though. I feel like I’ve learned everything from, I mean, it’s such a great, it’s such a great speech, but do you think about how even 10 years ago that wasn’t as much of an option?
Yeah. Yeah. You had like go out your way to. , I’m, It’s just like she’s been around for that long. She’s been around for a long time and she was still up. She, she was just like, shootings time, like, I mean, I probably been following her for like six of those seven years, but don’t even Oh, was a photographer.
Yeah, so that’s, Yeah, she was a, she was shooting weddings still, and that’s when I, That’s right. I listened to her free, like 60 minute class, which is basically pitching mm-hmm. . Yeah. Her course, she sold me and I remember I like wrote out a spreadsheet for Dave and like all the reasons why it would be worth it and how I could pay it off, how many sessions it would take.
Let me guess. He didn’t even, he was like, she was like, You’re gonna do it. And I bought her class. He could probably tell like, if you went to the, all the trouble of like figuring out all this, like you have to do it. Yeah. He was, he was super supportive. Like I’m, I’m very lucky that we communicate the way that we do where.
When we’re enthusiastic and have thought through things and it really is a thoughtful process of something that we want to go for. The both of us have no problem being supportive for it. So this was one of those things that he was like, Please just freaking do it. Stop pitching. It’s me. You don’t have to keep telling me why , but you should go work, work for Jenna Kucher and pitcher course.
Just do it. So I did that and I think between second shooting weddings for Marissa, who was a person that I think set the standard for what I believe mentorship really is because I understand the value of paying someone to mentor you. Like if you don’t have an actual foundation for a relationship, like if you’re not actually friends, yeah, yes, you should pay someone.
But she allowed me to just come shoot every wedding with her as an assistant and use those pictures like for my portfolio to so show that I could do it. She referred me for things. She helped me learn my camera. , like her willingness to like give information and to be so open set the standard for me to be able to learn and feel confident.
And it only took five months before I quit my job and I took a part-time gig and a boutique. It’s Amazings so much. I worked in a shop for a little bit and by the end of that summer I quit the boutique job because I was too busy and it took, like, I took every workshop in the local Cleveland area that I could from a couple called Mallory and Justin.
Mm-hmm. . Yeah, McCray. I considered them for our wedding. They’re the best. Any ding dong can take a picture and make it beautiful, but you have to have self awareness. A, just a solid way of connecting with people to be a good photographer, especially in weddings and families. Like if you’re a dick Yeah. And you take pretty pictures, I don’t care.
It is give and take. You have to have like that symbiosis of like a relationship with your photographer. Yeah. If you don’t have that, it will make the day weird. And some people don’t value that and that’s cool. I’m not meant to work with those people. How do you choose who you’re gonna work with and, and if it’s not a good fit?
It’s taken a long time. So I’m 60, this is my sixth season. It’s taken until about now for me to be able to take a breath and decide when people don’t fit with me. And to really see yellow and red flags, like the yellow, the orange, and the red flags are there sometimes. And I don’t need, I don’t need there to be this instantaneous.
Dump out all of your feelings and we share every single part of our personal lives with some people. We have instant connectivity, whether that’s because they feel like they know me from what they’ve seen online, or we’ve opened up a dialogue in our, even our first meeting where we barely talk about weddings.
We’re just talking about life. That’s usually an indicator of the way that we’ll work together on a wedding day. It very rarely has to do about the photograph. It has so much more to do about the relationship. It’s so interesting you just said about red and yellow flags because very early in our business we had somebody who we met with and we ended up doing a proposal for, and they were very like outright rude, and that was very easy for us to be like, Nope, not a fit.
Mm-hmm. , it wasn’t, I shouldn’t say it was easy cuz we needed money at the time and it would’ve been a fun part. It’s hard to turn down the job, but it was, it wasn. It didn’t take that much for us. And what I think has been harder is when it’s like, well, they’re not bad people and it’s not a bad project.
And you know, it probably would be fun, like when you’re a little bit more on the fence, it’s harder to say no cuz you’re like, Oh, am I just overreacting? Am I closing the door on something? That could be really great. But we’ve realized recently that sometimes it’s just not a good fit. Sometimes there’s someone that’s just like, they look at things, they look at the world differently.
Mm-hmm. . And if it’s just gonna make the whole project or the whole experience working together harder. And I think like that does come from experience like honing in on the, the yellow or the orange show. I think we’re still getting comfortable with the yellow and orange flags and being like knowing that like, okay, we need to listen to that.
I like that, just that pointing that out as, it’s not always glaring, but it’s still important. So sometimes this has happened and I will say, One out of every 30 weddings that I had last year where it wasn’t until after their engagement session that I was like, We are totally not a fit. And they actually were the ones that released me from the contract.
Oh really? Oh, that’s good. I mean that takes a lot of pressure off though. Initially it was a huge blow to my confidence. I was gonna say, yeah, how does that feel? But then when I reflected on it, and again I talked to Dave about everything, he is an incredible sounding board cuz he’s seen it from the outside for years watching me go through this.
He said, you came home from that stressed out. You came home from that not feeling good. You had discussions with their family members, which also was not normal. And we weren’t on the same page. And what they were valuing wasn’t me. They were valuing, having a discount for the most part is what I realized over time.
Yeah. And. It was in our best interest to part ways, and I feel like that is another thing that isn’t talked about is that maybe over time, if you realize you’re not a good fit, letting go of the contract and maybe letting go of the money is for the best. Yep. I don’t know if you guys ever felt that. If you’ve let go of something and you feel way better, we have had that several different times and a lot of times.
Most times I would say it’s a decision between money and security and like something financial that feels scary and like our mental health. And I do think in all of those cases we always choose our mental health because especially if creativity is your job, if you have to show up every day and be creative and connect with people and, and you have somebody who’s sucking all your energy, cuz that’s what ends up happening.
Like if it’s not a good fit, you’re trying so hard for me, I know I start overcompensating because mm-hmm like lack of confidence and so, and spending a million more hours than we would normally like in which, in that case we’re not making any money cuz we’re spending all of our energy and our time overcompensating.
Yeah. It’s just, it’s so bad. Yeah. It’s a lose loses too. Yeah. I mean in the industry of, I’m gonna talk about mostly weddings cuz with family I can kind of figure that out early on. But in weddings, I hate the idea that I would go into someone’s celebration of their marriage. And be irritated the whole time.
I don’t wanna go into their wedding day and feel inconvenienced or not in the right mindset. What does that say about the way that I’m photographing their day? Right? The way I’m photographing their emotion. I’m not giving the right version of myself. And I’ve learned that over time. That quality over quantity.
Yeah, big deal. And then also following your gut, that also, that’s the only way I can figure out how to operate and not burn out. Because after the pandemic, after the past couple of years where I was just bogged down, I wanted. Out. I wanted to quit so bad because I felt like I was giving so much and getting nothing back.
And in a service industry, your job is to give. Yeah. But if it’s not filling you back up, then what’s the point? Like, what is the point of doing this job? Especially again, creativity. You have to show up every day and like have something to pull from. Yep. So going back real quick, when you, so you, like, were with your wedding photographer holding the gear mm-hmm.
and then now you have this successful business, like what were the steps to get there and what did, like, I have to imagine at the beginning, like just figuring out how much money do I need to bring in every month or every year in order to quit my job? Like what was that process like in the beginning?
Trial and error. I’m not gonna lie, I didn’t have a huge budgetary plan. I didn’t sit there and write out everything. I was young and probably ill-equipped and unprepared and Dave and I were both. At the beginnings of our career. And I think we relied heavily. I mean, this isn’t the answer I think anyone wants hear.
We relied really heavily on his income and then secondarily we relied on mine. So while I actually think that’s really important to say, and you’ve brought this up before too, like at the beginning of our business I was re, I was able to lean on my husband as well. And you sometimes have to be able to do that.
And when you’re on the outside and you’re looking in and you’re like, how did they do it all on their own? And just knowing that sometimes you do have to have a support system. Like Yeah. So it’s not always on your own. Yeah. Yeah. And people, it’s, And both of us had spouses that we were able to like lean on things like health insurance.
Yeah. Yeah. That was a big thing. Yeah. That’s my husband’s job as health insurance. . But I remember during that time, it’s the same thing with people who are like, just start a business. But there are a couple of things. I had the support of a partner and a spouse. Mm-hmm. . Not everyone has that. I don’t come from a place where we would’ve been destitute if I had lost all my money.
We had family and friends to rely on. We had a home to stay in. We had some savings, we were fine. And I had a support system within this industry too. So there was a lot that was working in my favor to be able to start a business. I wasn’t alone. There was no process of this that was independently me coming up from nothing.
Yeah. So I worked really hard in the beginning and essentially took any job that came my way, pretty much anything. And I got really lucky that there were people weirdly enough that I grew up with who believed in me. They just said, We really like you. We really like the work that we’ve seen of you.
I’m just gonna trust that you can do it. That’s what they say for like small businesses starting out. Like reach out to your immediate like list because that’s where some of your first jobs are gonna come from. Mm-hmm. and that’s, it was the same for us too. Mm-hmm. . We had people who we used to work with Yeah.
At American Greetings that they were like, Hey, we saw you guys are doing a thing. Make human ask us to do work. So it does feel there’s like pressure at first because you’re gonna put a new thing out there that you’re doing out to like everybody that you know in a, whether it’s like a professional or not professional realm, but usually it’s like personal and family and friends and you don’t wanna fail.
So it’s like, well, what if I stop doing this and then a month I’m like, I have to like crawl back into the whole is what it feels like. Which it never is actually like that, but if you do, Yeah. That’s often like the, the momentum that you need to get off the ground. Mm-hmm. and I , I just talked to a girl that I know who started up a photography business about a year ago.
She’s a past client of mine and her mental health has been struggling since she started it. And she’s been talking me, I, you know, I gotta keep going. I started this and I really loved it and I said, If you, if you don’t actually love it and it’s causing you all of the stress in your life, there’s not a single person who can judge you for stepping back.
Yeah. If it’s not bringing you joy. , please stop. Yeah, please stop doing it. If you don’t need it to survive. If this is your side hustle on top of your full-time gig that you have, stop, you don’t gotta do it anymore. And I’m lucky enough that this, even in times of immense stress, hasn’t really caused me to totally step back or stop.
I’ve had the right support and the right amount of breaks to make it work. But going back to in the beginning when I was starting out, I think I tapered myself the right way to kick it up. And I was ambitious enough that when I took on jobs, I was going at them as hard as I could and putting in as much effort.
But I also wasn’t getting a gigantic return on investment, which is another thing that people should talk about is in the beginning I wasn’t making gobs of money. Yeah. At all. I really wasn’t. And it wasn’t until I got the right accountant that I could understand more what my expenses were. What it was really gonna cost around this business effectively.
And then how I could actually support myself and my family. And that’s a, that’s a really like critical part too, is findings. If you’re, if you are somebody who’s not naturally good at money, good at budgeting, like to have that kind of support. Yep. Super critical. And I think a lot of people, I don’t know how many photographers you fall along with, if you look on the internet, if you go on Instagram and you see a wedding photographer, it looks ga like glamorous as fuck.
Sure Does. They travel to Yosemite, they go to T Tum. Tulum. How do you I say Tulum. Tulum. I don’t know how you say it though. it. I don’t know. It’s pretty, They go to like all these gorgeous places. They’re jet setting. They wear wide brim hats. Who wouldn’t want that job? And you get to work, I want that job copy.
And I know it’s not glamorous, but the reality of it is it actually isn’t glamorous and you don’t know people’s situations. You don’t know if they’re actually bringing in fi, like. Financial stability. You don’t know if they’re just blowing all their money. You don’t know if they have savings or life insurance.
You have no idea what their, like medical situ, You don’t know what the situation looks like. And over time, and I don’t know if it’s like getting into my thirties, all I want is to make sure that we are secure and taken care of. My family’s okay. And I’ve also decided to do travel. For me, I can do one travel wedding a year.
And beyond that, I wanna be in Ohio. That’s great. This is where I wanna be. We, we had a similar conversation earlier today actually. Not obviously I’m not traveling for work, but about like what is important to each of us and what kind of business do we have to have that supports that versus the other way around.
Cause I feel like especially when you’re starting out, you’re trying to figure out how you can make it work. And so like where is the revenue gonna come from and what does that mean for our lifestyle and how many hours do we have to work and whatever. And finally gotten to the point where it’s like, okay, I.
I keep feeling guilty cuz like, oh I have another vacation coming up just because my son is 10 or 11. Now it’s easier for us to go outta town. We have family that lives outta town and I feel guilty every time and then I’m like, No I don’t. Instead of feeling guilty that I’m gonna travel, I need to figure out how to build in, like build into this business.
That’s why we own a business, how to make it work where I can travel. And like for you being home for Harvey, her, your little one, Ann Hays, I mean, but you also have to. You have to not feel guilty for going away for a week because your life is in a different place than mine is. But I just, I don’t expect to go away for a week.
Right. It also doesn’t sound really fun with two little kids. It’s like just work in a different place. It’s, it’s just, Yeah, it is. It’s more, what, what is that? What’s the version of that for you? Yeah. And for you it’s being home when they get off the bus or you know, us just not working such long hours.
Like it can mean something different to everybody. But taking a look at that and saying like, Well, I don’t have to be a travel photographer just because it looks sexy on the outside, but like, this is what actually works for my life. Cuz I have a family and I kind of like that You said what looks sexy for your life because like, For you guys, where are you at with like, what does look sexy for your life?
It looks like working, like starting work at like 10:00 AM mm-hmm. . And then just like we’ve identified that like our creative, like our most creative time, like Jess does get started like really early in the morning. She’ll wake up at like 6:00 AM and just like crank out like eight hours worth of work by like sometimes, sometimes by like 10:00 AM It’s ridiculous.
That’s maddening. I don’t understand that. So, but then at two she’s done, Oh, you’re done. She’s done with the day. Can’t function, couldn’t even like mail a letter. But you’ve already done, like we’ve talked about that if you’re working at, if you start working at 6:00 AM 2:00 PM is, that’s when you should be done.
Right? Right. Like anyone, And I’m like, I’m getting started at like 10:00 AM and then I’m like at like two or three, I’m like, okay, I’m done . But like that’s when I used to be such a night owl, but like now that I can’t be. Because I’m just really fricking tired. Like my creative energy is actually like from 10:00 AM to like two, three, and like that’s when I’m the best.
So I’m like, I wanna use that time and then just like have the other stuff to be when I’m like wrapping things up or doing the things I don’t have to think about as much. And just like being done.
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I, I feel like that’s been the best. Thing that we’ve done this year is we used to like try to start work at like, like corporate hours, start work at eight and working and like why until five. And we would sit here and like keep working until five. And sometimes I’m like, I’m not even getting anything done cuz I’m so burnt out from the day.
And finally we’re like, we’re really only being super productive between like 10 and three, so let’s just work between 10 and three. And then if we need to like jump on to finish something and there’s like a client deliverable or something in the evening or in the morning, like we can do that, but like, let’s not just like have.
But in seat mentality because we were sort of programmed that way and yeah, we run our own business and why are we, like, at a point you end up running your own business because you don’t wanna do the nine to five, and then if you feel tethered to the nine to five, what’s the point? Right? Yep. But there’s like some sort of guilt that like, oh, I’m like taking off early or like starting late or whatever.
And I’m, I’m, I’m coming out of that. I used to feel that a lot more like, cuz it was so recent that we were in the corporate environment and for so long. Well, and I think part of it is also that we’re in a partnership. We feel like we have to show up for each other too, versus like, if we were solopreneurs, we might not feel as guilty.
We might be like, well I mean I’ll get it done at this time. And like, no one’s gonna be keeping track. Not that we’re keeping track of each other, but we like, we wanna show up for each other. So. Right. We were just saying today how. I, I said, You don’t make me feel like I should feel guilty. I feel like I want to work as much as you’re working because I respect you.
And like, I hope that continues because that’s why I think we work well together cuz I care what you think because if I didn’t and I was just slack off or vice versa, that would be probably great. Either, you probably wouldn’t slack off then either cuz you would, you would stress out about things. . But yes, but so my thing is travel.
I just love, I love traveling and I wasn’t able to because I had a younger child and, and you know, money was tight and stuff. And finally my husband and I are at a point where we can do that more. And every time we go out of town I feel guilty because I’m not working or we’re not like, if we can’t take as much work on that week because I’m gonna be out of town.
So I. because we’re in a partnership. It’s like, oh, should you have a week vacation? Every time I take a week vacation? Instead of just being like, You have your life flexible how it works for you and I have my life flexible how it works for me and like us just be okay with that. I think that’s where we’re getting to, but the just, it’s like, it’s just, again, corporate vacation days, it’s like you only have so many vacation days.
So when it’s beyond that, like that should be a problem or something. And it’s just not like, I don’t know why that paradigm, I don’t feel that when she does it. Cuz I do wanna travel too. Like my husband and I, like we were having discussions like of where we were gonna go like right before Covid happened.
Cuz he’s like, Should we wait until he is older? I’m like, No, we should go now when he’s like, not mobile and like we can just shove ’em in a like stroller or carrier and we can go do our thing. . What was it like when you made this shift from not having a child to having a child as far as your business goes?
Oh yeah. I, I feel like I could have read books, listened to things until like my ears bled and I was just full of information and nothing would’ve prepared me. Like, Yep. Motherhood in general, I feel like is one of those things where in my first year of postpartum, I kept reiterating the sentiment of why didn’t anyone tell me about.dot, dot?
Yeah. But on the other hand, I had to just go, I hate that I had to just do it and go through it. I think in my mind I thought I would be super woman. I really think that I had built up that I could do it all. I think that’s society. . Yes. I think they, they show us that like, you can, you can be a, a badass working mom, the bad ass, and also be the best mom and have all the time to do all these crafts and Pinterest.
Shit. Like badass mom sounds cool, but it’s fucking like miserable. To be a badass mom means you just essentially totally scrape away your personhood. Yes. Because you’re kind of nothing else. Yep. And I had, Am I allowed to talk about postpartum? Oh, please. I actually have some questions I wanna ask Okay.
About it. And you can put like a trigger warning in here if you want. So I had postpartum psych triggers the warning . Yeah. . I would, I had postpartum psychosis within the first week of Emmett being born. So what does that mean? And I only kind of recognized that that was the term to use now in like the past couple months.
It is essentially, I had that from lack of sleep. I basically went an entire week and didn’t sleep like at all. Dave went back to work after one week and beyond. The weirdness and isolation of having a baby in peak Covid times, which us moms who had a baby during that time and it was the first time. We don’t know anything else.
There’s no other gauge of comparison. I don’t know what it’s like to have a baby when the world is normal. What month was ETT born? He was February of 2021. Oh, okay. 2020. So it had just been like another, another wave had kicked in. Yep. And. I should have known with my history of anxiety and depression that I was going to struggle tremendously in postpartum.
You should, and no, you shouldn’t have had to know that. I don’t have any issues with depression or anxiety, and I now know that I had postpartum anxiety with Harvey. Really? Yeah. You don’t know how. And I had an experience of anxiety, depression, and I didn’t have postpartum, so I do don’t know. You don’t know?
I, I just figured I should’ve known like I, No. Every time that I have a massive big life change, my anxiety and depression is really bad. It peaks, but I didn’t understand how bad sleep deprivation would affect my psyche. And I had gone days and days of not sleeping and just spending all day and night crying.
And Emmett didn’t have colic. He was just a normal baby. But his cries. Triggered something in me that I really can’t articulate properly. Maybe that’s my, it was the most like visceral feeling to hear his cries and it make me so sick. And then on top of that, I had an oversupply and I really struggled with breastfeeding, which was a thing that I thought I was gonna pride myself on.
Being good at it was hard for both of us. You can’t, and you can’t control that. And you can’t control one knows how it’s gonna be, which don’t even get me started on the formula shortage and everyone pushing breastfeeding because I was a formula mom. Proud of it. Now feed how you need to feed. Exactly, Exactly.
Your baby need to feed is getting fed. Your baby is your baby. You’re doing a great job, is fed and growing. That’s all that matters. And I wish, again, I could go back and like hug past version of me, but I just essentially with the lack of sleep, with anxiety and depression, with hormonal shifts I hadn’t slept in days and I couldn’t sleep at that point.
I was so beyond exhaustion that I was essentially awake and I was hearing him cry in my head all day long. Oh my God. Like I could never get rid of the sound of his crying out of my head. I’d shower and I would be like closing my eyes and just like begging for the sound to go away. And I remember laying on the, our bed in our bedroom, like in my robe and a towel around my head and staring out of the window.
And there it was like there’s a tree in our front yard and it had no leaves on it. And it was so cold cuz it was February and gross. And I remember looking at the tree and being like, If I can make it until there are leaves on this tree, I won’t kill myself. Like I remember that feeling like, and I could cry, like if I could, if me in this tree can make it to where there are leaves on the tree, I’m gonna be okay cuz I know it will have been like three months and I’m gonna be okay.
And I just remember sitting there and crying and like, just being so bummed that this was how it was with my baby. Like I was pissed. I wanted something so different. And it wasn’t sometimes painted as of like magical time, like a magical period of life when you and your baby are gonna connect and you’re gonna kangaroo, cuddle, whatever.
And it’s, it is often not like that, but for some people, yeah, it is like the worst time of life. I feel so much for you. I’m so sorry. It’s, it’s also like, it’s just like with business, when you see, like you, you only see the good parts online. You see everyone else like, Oh yeah. Enjoying the baby snuggles and everything like that.
And like, I totally used to like do that too, to like tell people like, Oh, enjoy. It only lasts for so long. And I’m just like, Enjoy it if you do enjoy it. Oh yeah. And if you don’t, it’s okay. Like, it is okay if you’re not enjoying this period. Like, I liked the newborn phase because I, I love the little snugly baby, but I also hate the newborn phase because you’re not fucking sleeping at all.
Mm-hmm. like you, like I. It just, it’s really hard’s hard. I remember thinking like, I’m not supposed to be a mom. Like, that’s, that’s exactly how I literally, I remember thinking like, I shouldn’t, what did I do? Like I’m not supposed to be a mom, like Dave is for sure supposed to be a dad, but they would be so much better off without me, and I, I should probably backtrack.
It’s very hard to also articulate. I don’t fully believe that I was in a suicidal state. I didn’t wanna exist, and I’ve talked this to death in the poor choice of words in therapy, but like, I just wanted to fall asleep. . I just wanted to sleep and to not have to be in pain, but I had no active thought process, right, of how I wanted to die.
I just knew that this was too much. Right? It felt too heavy and the, the thought of like, I should not be a. wait on me all the time. So I, I feel like I created that narrative in my head and then kept it, kept perpetuating it. And I realized afterward like, I’m a great mom when I’m off for six hours a day doing my own thing at work and like can have my own time and then I come home and like, that’s a great, I’m a great mom in that situation.
I’m not a great stay at home mom. Like, I don’t like being with me and a baby for like 24 7 is not a great situation. And like newborn stage wasn’t great for me. Like 11 years old. He’s my best friend. Love hanging out with him. He’s so fun and funny. But like you don’t get to pick that. Yeah, you have to go through the whole thing.
But I feel like it’s better to know that other people have felt like that too. It’s not that just it was you, it’s just that people don’t talk about it enough. Yeah. And like, I love that you said like you don’t have to like, Like the newborn phase, you don’t have to like it. And that’s okay. And I didn’t know enough people in my life who said those words.
Not many. There was a lot of, It’s so fast, meaning like you have to cherish every moment. It, or you have to cherish every moment or you have to cherish it. Yeah. Cuz it’s, it’s not gonna last forever. Yes. And so like, if you don’t like it and then you’re gonna miss it someday. Yes. And I hate that because you could say that about anything.
It’s a terrible way to live. Like, it’s basically saying like, you die tomorrow. Do you? I get that. Car diem and shit. But also when someone’s suffering, it’s a hard way to look at the world. And I remember walking with Emmett and talking to our neighbors and they’re like, It gets better. You sleep more. And I was like, Could you actually give me like a timeline?
Could you tell me the exact date at which I sleep more? Could you? It’s so hard. Cause it depends on the kid. I know, but I was begging for someone to give me a timeline. Yeah. Tell me, is it eight weeks? Is it weeks? So hard? The first one. So like, And it’s all the three of us. I’m the only one that has a second kid, so I can say, From my experience.
And granted it might also just be the personality of my daughter, but like, it’s so much easier the second time. I’m not encouraging anyone else to have a second kid. It’s just like, you know what you’re in for. Mm-hmm. like, so right now, I mean like this time around we chose, we’re doing like, I’m being like all hippie granola and like I’m fucking bed sharing because I sleep, I sleep more Yeah.
To sleep. Cuz I’m, I’m breastfeeding and my husband was not really on board and I slept in the guest room for four months and he was finally like, Are you ever gonna come back to our room? I’m like, Can she be in our bed because this is working for me? And he was like, Okay. And so we did and like. She’s not quote unquote sleeping through the night, but like I don’t fucking care.
Yeah, she’s not, You’re so much more sane than you were with Harvey too. I am. I’m so much more sane and like the thing is I’m like, she’s going to sleep at some point. Yes, she is going to sleep in her own room, in her own fucking bed, but it’s not gonna be forever survival method. I it is. We didn’t bed share.
We did crib like super, super early. Because it works for you. If it works for you. This is, this is like the type of conversation I feel like is healthy because with sleep it is driven into our heads that there is a one way road to get good sleep. Which I think is also saying that all babies are the same, which is dumb cuz not all humans are the same.
It’s interesting whenever I learn about too with sleep, it’s that it’s also a privileged thing as well. Mm-hmm. people who sleep train, who do crib in the other room, Blackout curtains. Yep. Sound machine. All of those things cost money. Yep. All those things require an additional bedroom. Yep. All those things require your time, energy, effort.
Yep. It’s a privileged thing as well. And so the understanding of how to, if you do need to bed, share or co-sleep, how to do it in the most effective, safe way if you’re a breastfeeding mom, to get yourself some more sleep. Like it’s so nuanced. Like I’m a big fan of nuance right now because like especially in motherhood, you have to have it.
Yeah. Because what works for you and Hayes is different for us. What’s different for you and I, these are all things that like I think are crucial for our generation of mothers to do better by each other, to have better, more honest conversations, to be better for our children when they start hit shit. I want Emmett to know this kind of stuff.
If he ever decides to have mean, if his partner is a woman and he decides that they wanna have children, like that’s what I say. That’s, Yeah. I hope he knows this kind of stuff and I hope that I can be a supportive, open-minded person, but like, We also got shit for putting our kid in a crib at an early age in a separate room.
Sure. Shit. No matter what you do. Yeah, yeah. No matter what you do. And it, that’s what’s exhausting about it, is like, you do, you let me do me and like nobody should be giving shit to anybody about anything. It is, You’re right. 100% survival. Correct. We’re all just, And also not to fuck up our kids. Exactly.
First of all, and like with motherhood and working and owning your own business and being a badass mom and being a superhero, I really did learn the hard way that I completely obliterated my mind and body last year. And I, my clients were fine. They got everything that they needed from me, but I. Was not a human for a year.
And you had 30 weddings, is that right? Last year I had 32 weddings Last year. And your first year of having a baby, Correct. That’s insane. Insane. Yeah. And I was like, I was unwell. I think that I had a beautiful trifecta of postpartum anxiety, depression, and rage. The rage reared its ugly head for my first year.
Really, really bad. And that was a lot of, I’m not supposed to be a stay-at-home mom. I’m really not meant for the stay-at-home mom life and me either. I was me three . I was, I have this like beautiful golden retriever, like joyful man that I’m married to, but he, I was so angry with him so much of the time because he would go to work every day and I was like, You have your personhood.
Nothing has changed. You work, you come home and you’re the hero and he loves you so much. And I am here all day. Mm-hmm. and I hate it. Yeah. And then I’m mad at my kid and I’m mad at my husband And mad at yourself probably. Yeah. For feeling, for being mad. Yeah. It’s a like, anger is a horrible feeling. It’s a horrible feeling.
And I did a lot of work in therapy to talk through the fact that I yelled at my child a lot this year. And it took therapy and medication intervention and long conversations with Dave. Support from my family and friends, help. and now I’m at starting daycare and I feel good. That’s amazing. We have great days.
Like also I love toddlerhood. They are, it, They’re insane, but oh my God, it’s so fucking fun. It’s so fun. Like he’s an insane, they’re funny. Okay. I ha like, I don’t wanna like say the thing, but it gets so much better cuz he’s like, he’s, I think he’s a year younger than Harvey. He’s 16 months right now. Yeah.
Yeah. So like, oh my God. It gets cooler. It’s so like, Harvey is so fun. Yeah. Like, so fun. And like as much as I love the baby face, like I really do, I love the baby face cuz they’re just like, they’re small and they don’t go anywhere and like, they’re cute and they’re squishy and, but like I also, I cannot wait to see what Jesus’ personality is gonna be like and like, isn’t that kind of the point is like their little person just.
Comes out. Yeah, we are. It’s really infuriating sometimes too. Cause you’re like, Oh God, can I just make you different ? Well, it’s just like, I know this is who you are, but it’s so infuriating. But you are your own person. Like you’re annoying . I love you. Well, well, and I, like I tell Harvey, I’m like, I love that you know what you wanna do.
Like I know. And like I look at him and I’m like, So production. That’s my diplomatic way of saying You’re annoying. I’m like, you are driving me crazy way. I’m, I love that you, you know exactly what you want. Yeah. You know what you want and you are telling me what you want. Thank you for that , while she’s making the mad face.
You’re just doing this. I am. It’s wild. Yeah. I, again, like I can look back and know I did the best that I could with the tools that I had and the mental state I was in, where my body was just ravaged by a person who shot out of it. On top of a pandemic, on top of not having my partner at home because he had to be at a job in a physically different place.
On top of having 30 weddings, on top of having 30 weddings. The good thing is though, I think you figured it out before he’s gonna remember like that’s the thing he does. He’s not ever gonna know. My hope is that my overwhelming desire to like reflect and be self-aware will help us to like give him better memories and to prepare more for like these next stages of life where he actually can remember stuff.
Mm-hmm. and I tell Dave all the time, like, I don’t know if this is terrible or not. Like he won’t remember it, but I, I will remember. Yeah. You’ll remember. I’ll remember how horrible it was. You’ll also make new memories on top of these memories and they’ll get faded more and more. Yeah. Because I, I know my mom, she, I’ll be like, I had the best job that I had so much fun, and I’ll give her these little nuggets that I remember and she’s like, God, I just remember being so sad.
She had just divorced my dad the first year. Mm-hmm. and like crying all the time. Like, I don’t remember any of that. Like, I just remember having fun with you. So it’s, it’s like, it is a lot that, a lot less that they remember than you think they will and that like you have all of these next years to like stack on top of those and it will become, it’s probably painful right now, but it’ll become less painful.
It’s painful, but I also, it’s becoming less painful the more that I talk to people that I feel safe with about it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And the more, honestly, when I do share on like Instagram and when I’m having a tough time or we’ve gone through some type of season, It is the most surprising people who respond to me who feel the same.
Mm-hmm. . And I’m like, that’s the reason to talk about it. Like I don’t think you have to air out all your dirty laundry, but holy shit. Like if there’s some girl, like a girl I know right now, she’s pregnant and she hates, she hates being pregnant. She hates it. And everyone’s telling her how much to cherish it and it’s this beautiful gift and it sucks.
She is with a partner she loves. She did want this baby. This is something she’s looking forward to, but she’s physically miserable and she’s lost total bodily autonomy. Like to give up your body is really hard. . And I told her, I get that I hated being pregnant too. And it’s okay to not love the pregnancy process and still look forward to meeting this person.
Like that’s, you can lo it can be gray, it can be great area. Nuanced. Yep. Nuanced. Yeah. We love it. Nuance. I feel like that is my word of the year too, is like, everything is so nuanced and when we try to make it black and white or try to say like, everybody’s situation is the same, it just alienates people because it’s not, it is so nuanced.
It is very nuanced. So if you look back at your business over the past several years and becoming a mom and everything that you’ve gone through, what would you tell your self five or six years ago? Oh gosh, putting you on the spot to give your past self. I have heard, I have heard the one that’s more like, what would you say to your 15 year old self?
And that one always makes me cry cuz. Oh. Have you thought of your 15 year old son? Yeah. I want, Makes me wanna cry and hug her. Yeah. She was so sad. She was sad. Yeah. Five or six years ago five or six years ago, version of me would look at me now and be like, super fucking proud. Oh, I think she would be super, super pumped that this is my life.
Like, I could cry. That’s awesome. I think it’d be pretty pumped. I think I would just, I’d wanna tell or go back to that person and say like, You wanna just go and be at warp speed, but if you can just relish in what is happening. It, it’s, it’s happening right now. All the things that you’re wanting, they’re happening now.
And they might not happen at the pace at which you want them to, but they are happening and it’s yielding these results for the future. Like five or six years ago, we lived in a rental house and Dave was contemplating going back to school. He had just had like a major surgery. We were not making a lot of money.
We were freshly married and. I was chasing down big dreams and you know, you look back on those times and the sweetness of how young and naive and simple it well was. And I, I wanna tell that person like, just chill and be in this. Yeah. It flies by and life just gets chaotic and yeah, that’s great advice.
I wish I could tell my current self that and myself at every, I do all the time. Let’s try to just remind ourselves that I know we are always looking to the next thing and even after we found this in business, like we’re successful at one thing and it’s immediately like, what are we gonna do next? And it’s like, just sit in it for a minute and we’re not good at that.
Be proud of. Yeah. I don’t know any entrepreneurs that are good at just like sitting in what they’re in. Every time I talk to our business coach, she’s like, You guys, like, let’s lift off the things that you’ve done in the past, like two months since we, or like the past month that you’re talking. We’re like, Oh yeah, I guess we.
Because we sort of just like finished it and then we moved on. Yeah. And I think, yeah, same thing in life too. It’s like, whether it’s sports or whatever, just like I, I think finally I read something recently, somebody said that their kids were grown and they missed the days when like the kids were all playing in the street and we were going to baseball games and like all the parents are friends.
And I’m like, I’m in that right now. And I would like, not, not that you can stop and like cherish everything, but I was thinking like I could just let this fly by and then be looking back on it later instead of thinking like, Oh, this moment that I’m in right now is, is its own uniqueness. Like toddlerhood is its own uniqueness.
And you know, when they’re five insects and now they’re, you know, he wants to snuggle less and less. He needs me less and less. And that’s sad. But also there’s these other fun things that come along with it and just like appreciating that at every stage. It’s hard to do though. It is. And it is one of those things.
It’s like, appreciate it cuz it’s almost gone. I know. I think more just whenever it crosses your mind. I try to do this a lot more now, which seems like a strange thing. But Dave and I were just in New Orleans this past weekend for a wedding. It is our first trip alone without Emmett. It’s amazing. I still haven’t done that.
It was pretty before kids. It was pretty highly recommend. And I told him, I was like, I really feel like this is the first time I’ve looked at you and like really looked at you and really talked with you in a 16 months. And like, it’s not like we haven’t connected or done anything. Yeah. But like I catch that with Emmett too every so often where I actually pause and really look at him and really pay attention to what’s happening because I’m just inundated with a million thoughts in my head and what’s going on in the world.
And Those pauses to look at the people in my life and to what’s actually going on, Bring me back down to earth, even if it’s only for like 0.2 seconds. But those little moments help me a little bit. It’s so important. Totally. I don’t love it all, but I do love those little moments. Yes. Yeah. And it’s okay.
Yeah. It’s okay to like have the, like most of the moments are not that right? Yeah. Mo 99% of the moments are just like chaos. But yeah, if you can stop every once in a while. Yeah. If you don’t stop every once in a while. I freaking love Ferris beers. I, I was trying to get the quote right, but I couldn’t remember it.
You might pass me back. All right. What is next for you? Like, what are you getting excited about for this year and next year? Well, I, I have less than half of the amount of weddings that I did last year. How, how amazing does that feel? It feels freaking great. Oh. I have all of July off of weddings, so I’m mostly just focused on, I have family sessions and engagement, but mostly I’m just like, I’m getting caught up.
I have other things I wanna focus on. I’m about to dive into an SEO course. Nice. I’m so excited. Are you doing more brand photo shoots? Oh, okay. So I’m very passionate about food. It has been revitalizing to photograph food and restaurants. I like the combination of not just photographing full menus. The way I describe it is like, I like the final plate, but I like the process to the final plate too.
Mm-hmm. . So photographing the kitchen staff at work and the chefs and what they’re actually creating feels like art to me. So if I could find a way to dip my toe in and then nudge myself and then like kick the door in to the food industry and work with chefs and restaurants, that’s. . That’s where I’d like to continue to propel forward.
So we want all of the chefs and restaurant owners and restaurant employees to hear this and reach out to Leslie. I feel like the way that you’ve talked about everything you’ve done in your career, you’re gonna find that door. I sure hope so. Cause you just like unabashedly reach out to people and you’re like, Hey, can I do this?
I reached out to about 40 restaurants over the past year and been denied about a million times. Well, that’s what happens. It’s like they. They’re just busy and it’s just like any service interests you, They’re like busy and they like, might not even have looked at it or they’re like, I don’t have time to do this.
I’m out there pitching myself with such passion and they’re like, Bitch, if you wanna take pictures of our food, you can, but like you’re gonna have to pay for it. Yeah. . Yeah. Come on in and eat. But I just photographed, Spice Acres is located in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. They’re very unique farm because not only are they part of the national park, but they also have, they partnered STEM program now with some schools.
So it’s teaching them about like agriculture and science. Ah, that’s amazing. That’s really cool. And food. So they, we walked around their farmstead, but they did this beautiful farm to table meal. Beautiful. And I got to photograph it and then eat the food and that. Awesome. It is on the goal plan for my husband and I to have a date night doing that, like when I can enjoy all the foods, not being able to have like cheese, dairy, and gluten is just a real bummer.
It was like the most romantic bummer. It’s a bummer. It’s a real, That sounds like a sex, like urban dictionary. That sounds like abl can and a bummer. Don’t look up where I saying don’t even know where I came out, but it just came out and now it’s not getting edited out. It’s a blunder. It’s like such a romantic experience to sit outside on a farm and eat a meal.
It’s, it was just beautiful. Of course, I’m alone working, but whatever story of my life, but I’m still photographing weddings. You still love weddings. I have had a tumultuous relationship with weddings. I would have to imagine six years of those long days. It’s on the weekends. It’s gotta be different. It, I definitely feel like I’m gonna continue to cut back a little bit every year to make sure that I’m giving the right amount.
Mm-hmm. . . I will say I find myself very, very overwhelmed and stressed out about traveling for weddings because traveling for work doesn’t allow you a lot of leisure. You are still working. It’s just in a different location. Mm-hmm. . So I anticipated I would have an enormous amount of stress at the wedding that I just photographed.
It was one of those weddings that actually reaffirmed why I do this work, because the mentality of the couple was that they wanted to enjoy their celebration of love in a place that they loved with a very small, intimate group of people. There were only 25 people there. Oh wow. That’s amazing. So they wanted to showcase New Orleans.
A place that they love, that they think is so much fun and it was special and not pageantry and not about all the bells and whistles that people feel like they have to do for a wedding day. I felt like it was a beautiful representation of what a wedding day is supposed to be. And this isn’t a knock to the big wedding days and the big blowouts, cuz those are super fun.
But this felt so personal and true to them and I loved that they stuck to it, that they were just like unapologetically themselves this whole time. Yeah. And if I could continue to photograph work like that, I know I can give my best version of myself and I know that I will serve the client the best way possible.
So it doesn’t need to be in New Orleans, but when I talk to people and their main focus is, I’m ready to spend my life with this person. And I wanna celebrate with these people. I don’t really give a shit what your colors are or where it’s located. If, if what you want is quality time with your people and your person, I care about that way more than anything else.
So it was a one of those reaffirming moments. It’s so great to be at this stage of your business where you can start to like narrow in on those type of things and be like, This is what I really love. Mm-hmm. . And if you’re only gonna have so many weddings in a year, for us, we’re only gonna have so many projects in a year.
It’s like, you wanna make the most of ’em because it’s gonna take, it’s like your life. It’s gonna take up, you know, days and weeks away from your family and so need the right. And I’m sure you feel the sense, like sincerity of this too. Like you also wanna make sure other people get what they deserve. I, I would rather refer someone to a, like a little bit younger photographer who.
Go getter. They can handle the 300 person wedding. They’re amped about it. They can do the whole shebang. That might not be for me anymore, but I can find you the person who will do it the best way. Yep. Yeah. So it’s that other thing too, where I wanna make sure you get what you deserve.
For sure. All right, Lizzie, this has been amazing.
Loves talking to you as we always do.
So if people want to follow along your work, where should they go first?
You should go to my website.
Who built your beautiful website?
Oh my God. Oh my God. If you love it, they must be really talented.
No but for real. Go to my website because it’s so pretty. It was a labor of love.
And it tells your story.
It’s very wordy because I’m very wordy. So you should go to there. So that’s lizzieschlafer.com which I know will be spelled out somewhere.
And then on Instagram, it’s just my first and last name, @lizzieschlafer.
I do not have a Facebook page.
So good for you.
Well, I have a personal Facebook page.
But no one should go and find you there.
No one should. No. Please don’t. Don’t my personal page. I won’t say yes to you.
Please leave Lizzie alone on Facebook.
Yeah, just please leave me alone, .
So go follow Lizzie. And thank you.
Thank you for being here. We love you. And we’ll talk to you soon.
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